tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post8541150109652475507..comments2024-01-06T00:28:45.062+08:00Comments on Bibliobibuli: Protesting Rushdiebibliobibulihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16456636355933524132noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-38723706052155703112007-07-06T06:45:00.000+08:002007-07-06T06:45:00.000+08:00sufian - deep!sufian - deep!bibliobibulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16456636355933524132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-61471142029825895382007-07-06T02:43:00.000+08:002007-07-06T02:43:00.000+08:00I'm named after the deposed shah of iran so i'm n...I'm named after the deposed shah of iran so i'm not really interested in all the fuss about Rushdie, but on the subject of a democratic protest:<BR/><BR/><I>protest is good, a necessity<BR/><BR/>but when you're rallying cry is destroy a person/ country ... that's really incitement to hatred and aggression doncha think?<BR/><BR/>(i shouted slogans too but corny hippy stuff like "peace now"!)<BR/><BR/>and the western media just love this kind of view of islam - "look how irrational and violent these people are" so these protesters are playing into their hands while the peaceful rest go unnoticed</I><BR/><BR/>-- point! the way these people go about it is a joke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-59876485677921547682007-07-06T00:52:00.000+08:002007-07-06T00:52:00.000+08:00Sharon,Sorry, before 'the attacks', I lost a sente...Sharon,<BR/><BR/>Sorry, before 'the attacks', I lost a sentence; I meant to say, the Others were attacked too...<BR/><BR/>Mr Greenbottle,<BR/><BR/>The same. Yes.Sufianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05920865973263896241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-75626694119146525032007-07-06T00:41:00.000+08:002007-07-06T00:41:00.000+08:00Sharon,It's an interesting dilemma. There is no su...Sharon,<BR/><BR/>It's an interesting dilemma. There is no such thing as freedom of speech (and here I am stealing Stanley Fish's ideas).<BR/><BR/>Freedom of Speech is such an ideal thing that, only a deranged or horribly naive (read: Americans) person would want it. In the context we usually discuss, freedom of speech is a reflection of the beliefs and notions of those in power; freedom of speech is freedom to say what is allowed by the people in power, not really 'Freedom' in the truest of sense, just freedom, with strings attached.<BR/><BR/>Even the word freedom itself is automatically limiting. If freedom exists, then, why must we use a word to define it, right?<BR/><BR/>+ + +<BR/><BR/>Yes, you're angry at the terror attacks in Britain, and I'm not denying your right to feel angry, but what about the rights of the Others (the smelly-ketayap-wearing-ones)?<BR/>Don't the multitudes who feel hurt by the attacks not allowed to express their anger? Or don't the smelly ones bleed when pricked? <BR/><BR/>Funny thing, a while back, the historian David Irving was jailed in Austria for 3 years because he was charged with denying the holocaust. Where is the voice, if I may paraphrase Mr. Sympozium, of the non-muslim moderates? All we can hear is deafening silence. <BR/><BR/>Giorgio Agamben wrote a thesis on Homo Sacer, individuals who exists in the law as an exile. The law, he claimed, is what gives us our identity, hence, by putting individuals outside of the law, we deprive him/her of his/her identity. He/She became a non-person, effectively. <BR/><BR/>This is not some erotic philosophical fantasy of a dilettante Italian philosopher; we see this in Abu Ghraib, in Afghanistan, and soon, in a theatre near you.Sufianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05920865973263896241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-73901550261600415982007-07-05T23:17:00.000+08:002007-07-05T23:17:00.000+08:00When other people do it, they're exercising their ...<I>When other people do it, they're exercising their right of free speech. When muslims do it, they're vile, vile, vile terrorists hell-bent on the destruction of the world.</I><BR/><BR/>was pondering on this all day, sufian. i guess part of it is how you protest. i'm not exactly experienced at protesting but did march in london against the iraq war. we were a v. polite and somewhat subdued crowd of half a million or so - the war had already started and the tide couldn't be turned so all we could do is express our displeasure.<BR/><BR/>protest is good, a necessity<BR/><BR/>but when you're rallying cry is destroy a person/ country ... that's really incitement to hatred and aggression doncha think?<BR/><BR/>(i shouted slogans too but corny hippy stuff like "peace now"!)<BR/><BR/>and the western media just love this kind of view of islam - "look how irrational and violent these people are" so these protesters are playing into their hands while the peaceful rest go unnoticed <BR/><BR/>maybe i'm influenced also retrospectively by the terror attacks on britain, something which leaves me very angry indeed<BR/><BR/>i can't have the freedom of speech thing both ways. protest on but keep it nice!<BR/><BR/>animah - v. interesting point. i dunno what the anger really is about. maybe these folks think they OUGHT to be angry even if they have never read the book? i would get angry enough to be mobbish on some issues. but i hope i wouldn't shout "destroy"!bibliobibulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16456636355933524132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-40444471072903594732007-07-05T02:03:00.000+08:002007-07-05T02:03:00.000+08:00"Rights are only for people who can afford perfume..."Rights are only for people who can afford perfume."<BR/><BR/>Is this true? Because at the moment, I can only afford Rexonna :P<BR/><BR/>p.melukis<BR/>The Unapologetic Banana Coconut Ice CreamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-83495056108779054472007-07-04T21:05:00.000+08:002007-07-04T21:05:00.000+08:00ah mr suffian.you warmed my heart...by the way, do...ah mr suffian.you warmed my heart...by the way, do you happen to be "pessoa" in your previous incarnation somewhere?<BR/>i missed him...he's the only person i missed in another simpler alternate cyber universe ...Greenbottlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316111272589161400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-34770131219313508062007-07-04T18:50:00.000+08:002007-07-04T18:50:00.000+08:00When other people do it, they're exercising their ...When other people do it, they're exercising their right of free speech. When muslims do it, they're vile, vile, vile terrorists hell-bent on the destruction of the world. <BR/><BR/>It is much much much easier to blame people wearing ketayap. I mean... they wear ketayap, what's there to like? They probably smell too, I'm sure.<BR/><BR/>Didn't Guantanamo Bay teach you anything, Mr Greenbottle? Rights are only for people who can afford perfume.Sufianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05920865973263896241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-17220862893365167392007-07-04T17:36:00.000+08:002007-07-04T17:36:00.000+08:00why are people getting so uptight with people shou...why are people getting so uptight with people shouting and screaming and raising hands and whatnots ?( i'm beginning to like this word -whatnot).<BR/><BR/>when muslims do this we get tarred, but when westerners do the screaming and raising hands and chantings and whatnots for all kinds of demonstrations you guys seem to be ok with this? ( and it should be ok too...)<BR/><BR/>why do you guys look down to muslims with ketayap eh? so sad...so many coconuts bananas and wogs around...Greenbottlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316111272589161400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-51237278280871267122007-07-04T14:08:00.000+08:002007-07-04T14:08:00.000+08:00"but is it appropriate for us to actually behave i..."but is it appropriate for us to actually behave in such a way, raising our fist, burning what-not, screaming and yelling and cussing, being a muslim and all? he even wear a ketayap some more..."<BR/><BR/>Wow. You use 'us' and 'our' like 'we' were actually there raising fists and chanting slogans. Trouble is, I don't remember being there, though (not in spirit, nor in flesh)... So i should be apologetic because... some people like to do idiotic things?Sufianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05920865973263896241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-80196412370939567512007-07-04T12:09:00.000+08:002007-07-04T12:09:00.000+08:00For once I agree with Greenbottle (8.22pm) - altho...For once I agree with Greenbottle (8.22pm) - although not directed at the earlier commentators. But what I believe Greenbottle has picked up is this: How angry do people get in order for them to go demonstrating, or worse, become "mobbish"?<BR/>It could be about any issue - insults to one's religion (perceived or otherwise), destruction of one's home, illegal invasion of another country. <BR/>All of us get upset about various issues, and we can now see what Sharon, Greenbottle, Viz, RX, Dean, Symposium, Glenda and I (and even Anon who's gone quiet lately) get upset about - they are all different issues.<BR/>The thing is why do we get upset and how upset do we get before we get "mobbish".<BR/>So what are the Muslims who demonstrate in this manner, really really upset about? <BR/>Think about it. It isn't about Rushdie. It isn't about the UK. It isn't even about Islam. That is just the manifestation of their anger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-70907955221235598612007-07-03T22:45:00.000+08:002007-07-03T22:45:00.000+08:00Because you burn and bombI'll burn and bomb tooAnd...Because you burn and bomb<BR/>I'll burn and bomb too<BR/>And then you'll burn some more and bomb some more<BR/>And of course I too will burn more and bomb more<BR/><BR/>Until we are all burnt dead and bombed dead.<BR/><BR/>How about we just insult each other instead? At least then the human race will survive.<BR/><BR/>-JenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-14116440241475173632007-07-03T20:22:00.000+08:002007-07-03T20:22:00.000+08:00hey ho...you guys who get offended by all the scre...hey ho...<BR/><BR/>you guys who get offended by all the screamings and whatnots...<BR/><BR/>actually you proved my point...you guys reacted because you feel offended...you don't go burning things but you used strong words morons, idiot and whatnots...<BR/><BR/>actually it's the same...it's just a matter of scale...<BR/><BR/>who knows you guys may go burning and bombing too if you're angry enough... happened in hindu india, buddhist sri lanka, cristian rwanda etc ...hey ho....and don't forget hitler in enlightened europe...hey ho...and bush vs osama ...hey ho...of course you may say but these are different , these are not because of a mere book..but...it's think carefully, it's just same difference...hey hoGreenbottlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316111272589161400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-21881145448242942532007-07-03T19:57:00.000+08:002007-07-03T19:57:00.000+08:00sufian - frankly i think there are quite a lot of ...sufian - frankly i think there are quite a lot of people happy to do idiotic things in front of cameras i.e. screaming slogans about destroying other countries (in this case mine)and playing to the cameras of all who want to see the religion in this light.bibliobibulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16456636355933524132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-29874585613123405392007-07-03T19:55:00.000+08:002007-07-03T19:55:00.000+08:00umm... i thought that if you tell a lie often enou...umm... i thought that if you tell a lie often enough, no one will believe you and you got a free one-way ticket to that "warm" place we call hell?<BR/><BR/>ok, perhaps salman went overboard in his writing, and yeah, perhaps he didn't and shouldn't be given the knighthood or whatever-hood. but is it appropriate for us to actually behave in such a way, raising our fist, burning what-not, screaming and yelling and cussing, being a muslim and all? he even wear a ketayap some more...<BR/><BR/>isn't it ironic that we get hyped up at a book written by a muslim whom we have no clear idea what he was trying to say, but we don't give a damn about people who act in a way disgraceful to our religious image?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795993055706654760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-18168567032724916222007-07-03T18:43:00.000+08:002007-07-03T18:43:00.000+08:00Islam has such a lousy name because of people like...Islam has such a lousy name because of people like you poppadumdum who equate idiotic behaviour with Islam.<BR/><BR/>"If you tell a lie often enough..."<BR/><BR/>Remember that saying?Sufianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05920865973263896241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-87807943022696603382007-07-03T16:48:00.000+08:002007-07-03T16:48:00.000+08:00Had a look at the pas website..."Agendi Yahudi" ha...Had a look at the pas website..."Agendi Yahudi" hahahahaha! What a joke! Can't they come up with something more original? <BR/>And the photos of the great unwashed masses...Poppadumdumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11763910123949254981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-31265286098984586402007-07-03T16:45:00.000+08:002007-07-03T16:45:00.000+08:00Your comment got wiped off? Oh dear. This is so co...Your comment got wiped off? Oh dear. This is so confusing. I thought they are proponents for reasoned discussions and freedom of expression? After all, they WERE given the freedom to express their displeasure, but decided not to grant anyone else with a contrary opinion this? I wonder why islam has such a lousy name around the world now?Poppadumdumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11763910123949254981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-38800267779220964122007-07-03T15:33:00.000+08:002007-07-03T15:33:00.000+08:00Malaysians should learn to protest about things th...<I>Malaysians should learn to protest about things they SHOULD be protesting about, like the environment,</I><BR/><BR/>what was that shocking statistic in the NST some months ago - one river in three in this country (with one of the world's most stunning natural environments) is seriously polluted. who can claim the moral high ground when this is the case? <BR/><BR/>there's a lot more to be angry about as you both say. but this abuse of the environment makes me angriest.bibliobibulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16456636355933524132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-66775256157027619512007-07-03T14:43:00.000+08:002007-07-03T14:43:00.000+08:00I have to agree with Janet above. Add to her list:...I have to agree with Janet above. Add to her list: corruption, nepotism, demolition of places of worship, NEP, lousy TV, brainless radio DJs who prattle on nonstop at loud volume...Poppadumdumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11763910123949254981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-200328389190532622007-07-03T14:11:00.000+08:002007-07-03T14:11:00.000+08:00Thanks for pointing out the article on the protest...Thanks for pointing out the article on the protest, Sharon. Yet another moronic and disgusting spectacle by ignorant Malaysians who know nothing and yet have a lot to bleat about. Who cares if Rushdie has a knighthood or a sainthood? Malaysians should learn to protest about things they SHOULD be protesting about, like the environment, the government, the education system etc. etc. Always poking their noses into other people's businesses before checking their own flaws. Idiots!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-37215269538617912852007-07-03T12:43:00.000+08:002007-07-03T12:43:00.000+08:00sharon,done. sent to your jaring and streamyx e-ma...sharon,<BR/><BR/>done. sent to your jaring and streamyx e-mail. let me know what you think and we eat glass some more.Greenbottlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316111272589161400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-86116147874101803522007-07-03T11:37:00.000+08:002007-07-03T11:37:00.000+08:00i would like that greenbottlei would like that greenbottlebibliobibulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16456636355933524132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-38519865105374211302007-07-03T11:36:00.000+08:002007-07-03T11:36:00.000+08:00Ted;better than UMNO (Untuk Melayu No Otak)Sharon;...Ted;<BR/><BR/>better than UMNO (Untuk Melayu No Otak)<BR/><BR/>Sharon;<BR/><BR/>i have a clipping, i'll make a pdf and send through e-mail to you if you like...Greenbottlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15316111272589161400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7912730.post-59710767328150571072007-07-03T11:02:00.000+08:002007-07-03T11:02:00.000+08:00What's this? They formed a Pasukan Anti-Salman (PA...What's this? They formed a Pasukan Anti-Salman (PAS)? Next thing you know these rowdy people will form a political party and take over the Malay hinterland!<BR/><BR/>The end is nigh!Ted Mahsunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13555225524434639998noreply@blogger.com