I don't have all the facts, am still trying to piece together the story from various sources but I would like to add my name to all those concerned about the arrest and detention on Nathaniel Tan under the OSA (Official Secrets Act), apparently because of a comment left on his blog.The Centre for Independent Journalism has issued a statement and urges the public to write to the IGP. And here are some of the blogs that I've been reading today:
4896
Screenshots
Global Voices
Rocky's Bru
Nik Nazmi
Menj's fear of Malaysia becoming "a police state" doesn't seem all that far-fetched, actually. What is going on??
28 comments:
Let me give me a hand. The first piece of information can be found at Eli's blog
Newsflash - Nat Tan nabbed by Special Branch
follow by,
Nat Tan: Updates, questions and rant
then,
Nat: What *YOU* can do to help
Next,
Nat Tan: At Duta Courts :(
Nat Tan’s lawyer: An act of oppression
I hope this can help figure out the whole story. Credit to Eli.
I'm sorry. It should be "let me give you a hand". Sorry.
thanks a lot, kean-jin
am amused that you correct your english for a pedantic english teacher's blog!
So where's his blog ?
Before anyone criticizes his arrest, shouldn't they look at the blog ?
did do. (of course lah, you think i'm daft and just jump onto bandwagons for the sake of?) couldn't see anything i thought was contentious, but then what do i know? his blog:
http://jelas.info/
if you read the global voices post you'll have read this:
There is also some speculation that one of Nathanial’s post earlier this week (about an ongoing spat between the deputy internal security minister and the inspector general of police) might have caused the detention.
now this may be the crux of the issue:
http://jelas.info/2007/07/11/johari-vs-musa-law-enforcers-fight-criminals-roam-free/
but i don't follow political discussion much so am not sure of the implications of anything said here. you can probably make better sense of it.
See, we're all assuming things. They're not saying much apparently so I guess a lot of people are guessing. As for CIJ, they seem to think that "independent" means "anti-government". Where were they when the ACA reported ministers because of what some guy said in some blog ? I prefer http://idlethink.wordpress.com/ which I think is a very well-written blog.
it is a nice blog and a sensible voice. well, anon, we'll see. but we will definitely be following the story and its implications very closely.
Here's a direct source. Nat's sister's blog: www.thetrialsofcheryl.blogspot.com
Please sign the online petition for Tan's release at
http://www.petitiononline.com/nat2007/petition.html
You can also sign the petition for Revathi. Although she has been released, she is forced to stay with her parents. She is not allowed to live with her husband.
http://www.petitiononline.com/2007Diva/petition.html
Please pass the word on. Every one signature counts.
thanks both for the additions. animah - i signed already and will sign the one for ravathi ... the way she's been treated is completely unacceptable!!
menj fears a police state that is Malaysia?
but he is supportive of a police state. His fear is but a mere facade.
i will sign on for tan but not for ravathi...
both are unfortunate events...but in the case of ravathi, if you are a muslim you must look at it from the muslim world view (assuming that you understand it of course). as much as i respect different world views of people who worship all kind of gods, i guess you must not use your world view to judge other people's world view.
greenbottle, you view is most paradoxical.
If you said "i guess you must not use your world view to judge other people's world view".
Through that, wouldn't it mean you should use your worldview to judge Ravathi's worldview?
greenbottle, your view is most paradoxical.
You said "i guess you must not use your world view to judge other people's world view".
Through that, wouldn't it mean Muslim shouldn't use their worldview to judge Ravathi's worldview?
People should really stop imposing their worldview on others.
Menj is in favour of book banning (see his other comment,) but he's worried about a police state ? strange.
-earth;
what i mean is non muslims can not judge things pertaining to muslim affairs from non muslim perspective/world views and vice versa.
as i've said, ravathi's is a sad and unfortunate case.
she was born a muslim but her parents, due to whatever reasons left her with her hindu grand parents and allowed her to be raised as a hindu.
i personally think that since she's been allowed to & raised as a hindu since childhood, she should remain one if that's her wish.
but from an islamic point of view if you're born a muslim you are a muslim and every endevour should be made for her to revert to her original religion.and i think that's what the religious dept tried to do in their own silly ways...
now, lina joy's case is more clear cut and simple...under muslim world view once a muslim ALWAYS a muslim...no more freedom in term of wanting to get out of it.
there are penalties for apostasy, the maximum of which is death penalty. but this is a maximum penalty only applied in some extraordinary cases.
an example in our secular lives, if you commit treason some countries can punish you with death penalty as a maximum punishment.
in china bribary can be punishable by death penalty etc.
but not all who commit treason or corrupt get ther heads chopped off.
if a muslim for example quietly beccome an 'apostate' without giving trouble to anybody , well, nobody cares...but if you start giving all kinds of trouble then you can expect the consequence to be appropriate to your actions ...i'm no ulama, but you get my meaning...
Xxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx xxx xxx xxx. X xxxx'x xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxx. Xxxxx xxxx x xxxx xxxxxx.
Xxxxx xxxx xxxxx'x xxxxxxxx xxx xxx xxx. Xxxxx'x xxxx x xxxx xxxxxx. Xxx xx xxxxxx!
There. I am itching to reply to that last few posts but I'll behave and go mix myself a cup of coffee instead.
greenbottle,
you said what i mean is non muslims can not judge things pertaining to muslim affairs from non muslim perspective/world views and vice versa.
It is up to the individuals to decide his or her faith. You should stop imposing your worldview on individuals, regardless of religious belief. If you don't, then please don't make sentence like this: "i guess you must not use your world view to judge other people's world view."
It's hypocritical.
Talking about treason, well, switching citizenship does not lead to death penalty.
And do it quietly? One of the reasons it is not being done quietly is because doing it quietly is almost impossible.
it's 12.56 am and i'm in a lovely padma hotel legian bali but why the fuck i'm grappling with this bibliobibuli forum beats me.
but sharkgila...go make your cup of coffee and come back and fight here if you like.
i don't care too much about being nice ...but -earth, you don't understand me...you can't use your non muslim thinking hat when you want to understand islamic laws...as much as it is not right for me and i can't say oh christianity is bunkum ...what's this silly 3 in one thing, why not four in one or some other bloody shampoo thing...or why god only has a jew boy for son and not a tamil or someone else etc...that is definitly not rignt for me to judge ...so don't judge how muslim think about muslim ways...islam doesn't allow freedom to apostasise - as simple as that...
nice to know my forum has such a draw greenbottle
problem is we're arguing from two such very different world views and there is little room for compromise between them
i'm like sharkgila, would rather slip out and make a cup of coffee than argue the toss
but i would always go with compassion over (what i see as) dogma. i also see religion as a personal thing and up to the individual conscience. no way i'm going to budge on that.
interestingly, when i lived in nigeria in the '80's the muslims and christians lived so closely together. my christian students would fast during ramadan and get up in the wee hours to help with the cooking. the muslim girls would go along when the christian girls sang hymns in the open every night of full moon. sometimes a girl would move from one religion to another with no baggage whatsoever. not sure if things are like that now ...
i'd like to see more tolerance, more sharing here. (as i believe there was three decades and more ago).
i believe too that we should be looking for the spiritual rather than the rule book.
just me and my first cup of the tea in the morning take on things.
greenbottle, hope you have a great time in bali!
oh i will, my fourth time in bali in 6 years now.
but one must not use one's own personal opinion when it comes to laws especially religious dogmas & laws...everyone can disagree or other wise but you must respect them for what they are...
as to compassion and understanding i'm 110% for that. in fact where i come from we have only a couple of chinese non muslim families. the old people among them wrote in jawi and we lived as one people and went to each others' festivals etc just like you described in nigeria...
but sadly these days this is no more...we are so polarised just like in kl or our local universities...it happened gradually and a large part of the reason is due to the racial based parties i think and nothing to do with religions per se...i blame it squarely on the chauvinistic parties umno, mca, mic...
Respect is mutual. One cannot expects to be respected if one disrespect others.
And I am not using "non-muslim" thinking hat. I'm using "freedom" thinking hat. I'm a Malay anyway.
Personally (and this is indeed my personal opinion), I don't see why it is okay for one muslim to regard his or her own value judgement as flawless, then place it on some pedestal so that he or she can take the moral high-ground - to judge other muslims, 'non-muslims' (I take issue with any definition that sets people apart) or those within the so-called "religious dogmas and laws..."
the polarisation deeply saddens me, greenbottle. see it when i go into schools (which is where i spend much of my time these days which is why i'm not such a rabid blogger at the moment!).
maaf en -earth,
i thought you're not a muslim, but anyway, I'm as much for freedom of expression or 'freedom' ,period, as anyone else.
But what i'm trying to say is that you must never use your value judgement on an already well defined world views eg in cases such as religions.
you shouldn't for example criticize a vegetarian as silly to those who practise that on religious ground and started claiming that they should be free to eat pigs or whatever...that's their world view...may be some religions are more tolerant and there's no penalty if they start gobbling up pork but in case of islam there are rules and laws on everything...some with minor and some with major penalties if you break them...just have to live with it, simple as that...
and mr shahril,...
as for me i never claim to be or regard my value or understanding of islam as flawless, and take a moral high ground etc, in fact i'm the first to admit that i'm as fucked up as anyone else, but i get bit a excited when someone who don't care or know much about islam start 'abusing' it based on their personal perspectives.
and ms bib;
that's the tragedy of malaysia.
the fact is, in our hearts of hearts we all mistrust each other...we hate each others' guts...but as for me, i'm color blind, i don't feel anything special being a bumi, (ALL of my close friends are non muslims and non malays), but i feel special being an extremist muslim...i love them the most but i love everybody...
i'm mad and now i'm off to kuta and pretend to be a bit of a hedonist for a few hours....
you must try to
greenbottle - yes, go and enjoy yourself! and that's an order!
Greenbottle,
Revathi has been separated from her young child. I believe non mothers cannot judge things pertaining to mothers' affairs from non mother perspective/world views and vice versa.
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